From server@amber.ora.com Mon Nov 27 15:44:49 1995 Return-Path: Received: from ruby.ora.com by jasper.ora.com.noname (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA27262; Mon, 27 Nov 95 15:44:48 EST Errors-To: listown@online.ora.com Received: from amber.ora.com (amber.ora.com [198.112.208.11]) by ruby.ora.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id PAA29858; Mon, 27 Nov 1995 15:46:36 -0500 Received: (from server@localhost) by amber.ora.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) id OAA19894; Mon, 27 Nov 1995 14:53:40 -0500 Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 14:53:40 -0500 Message-Id: <9511271939.AA25342@atiaus.arbortext.com> Errors-To: listown@online.ora.com Reply-To: paul@arbortext.com Originator: davenport@online.ora.com Sender: davenport@online.ora.com Precedence: bulk From: paul@arbortext.com (Paul Grosso) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: math tagging [was November Davenport meeting: notes on DocBook issues] X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Davenport Group General Distribution List X-Comment: To unsubscribe send message to listproc@online.ora.com "unsubscribe davenport" > From server@amber.ora.com Mon Nov 27 13:00:17 1995 > Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 10:38:44 -0500 > Reply-To: eve@doctools.com > Sender: davenport@online.ora.com > From: Eve Maler > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: November Davenport meeting: notes on DocBook issues > > Math fragments: > Terry tried summation as a test case. In TeX and eqn, it's marked up > mostly visually. There's a bit of content-based choice. In 12083, > nothing semantic is added to TeX and eqn methods. Thus, an SGML 12083 > migration for math seems to have little benefit. Besides 12083, there > are other fragments: ArborText math (more semantics) and Anders's > (Euromath?) (many more semantics). Math is not a monolithic > discipline; what math do we want to cover anyway? Just "computing math"? > > Murray suggests: Bump this up to SGML Open and ask what they > recommend. The Digital Library project of Univ of Illinois is leaning > towards 12083, so maybe we don't have to get more semantic if that > body doesn't feel it's necessary. > For research/future meetings: > Math; SGML Open's position on a math fragment; status of Euromath/Anders The "ArborText" math is (with just a couple exceptions) the earlier AAP math tag definitions. The 12083 math is the result of the revision of the AAP math. Eric van Herwijnen, editor of 12083, is holding a 12083 discussion session in Boston the week of SGML 95. One of the topics will be possible review of 12083 math. (That's not to say it will be revised--in fact, I'm against any major revision--but the discussion will raise the issue.) Anders Berglund is (and has been) editor of ISO TR 9573 which has defined a math tagging that was referenced by CALS, though there remains little support for it. CALS now refers to it as one of several choices (and also mentions 12083 as a choice). Someone--maybe WordPerfect--has announced some support for 9573 recently. Euromath is something else. Paul Ellison of Univ of Exeter (P.A.Ellison@exeter.ac.uk), Nico Poppelier of Elsevier (N.POPPELIER@ELSEVIER.nl), Bjorn von Sydow Chalmers University, Sweden (sydow@cs.chalmers.se), Richard Timoney of Trinity College, Dublin (richardt@maths.tcd.ie), and Tibor Tscheke of STEP (step@step.de) are some folks who should be able to give you better pointers and info about Euromath. I chaired the AAP review several years ago that included input from various sources and many mathematicians, and if there was any clear result, it was that this is a religious issue almost as bad as table tagging but even harder to support arbitrary tagging. Most mathematicians and typesetters agreed that one could not define all math tagging in terms of semantics, and that after a possibly semantic core, one had to have mostly geometric tagging. The 12083 math came out of this effort. SGML Open might be a reasonable organization to do a survey of this issue, but it depends on member support. (Things only get done when we have someone volunteer as subcommittee chair that gets things done.) In terms of support, there is some for ISO TR 9573, some for the original AAP tagging, and some--not a lot, but generally growing--support for 12083. Of those talking about added support (or users wanting added support), I generally hear about 12083. Then there is the large crowd that just wants to interchange the math in their SGML documents using TeX. paul Paul Grosso VP Research, ArborText, Inc. and Chief Technical Officer, SGML Open Email: paul@arbortext.com